Here is a nicely done video with some ideas on generalizing the Level 3 skills that all 4 of our dogs have already learned.
As an outgrowth of L3 Zen, as a Comeafter, I now want to teach "Street Zen". STOP at the curb!!!! Lily is NOT street savvy. At the Cays when running to the car, she runs to the rear of the car, totally ignoring the curb. Now she doesn't go further into the street, but my heart always leaps into my throat when this happens.
On Lily's Blog in the Scavenger Games she uses a whistle and a Stop cue. I have taught Lily to stop and drop on recall. She knows to "wait" while walking and I continue forward. In the situation I envision, she is running ahead of and away from me toward the street.
I will send this question to Sue. In the meantime, let's think it through - toward a plan.
Emily has 3 videos about the Invisible Barrier. There are 2 tutorials supporting the video below.
- Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuTh47i3hOY&feature=relmfu
- Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watchv=oNE_WJ1nMu4&feature=autoplay&list=PL756D0A827EF9134C&lf=results_video&playnext=2
From Sue:
Barrier Zen - that's the contact behaviour from agility: stop on the spot, do not go past the spot until released. It's also very simple standard Door Zen with the addition of more enthusiasm and harder and faster distractions. If I wanted it to be seriously serious, I would add a few very specific rituals to giving permission to cross the barrier - sit-down-sit snap-on-lead down-sit come-around-behind-to-heel-position, let's go. Or, if the dog is really trustworthy, target-hand, go-through-door-turn-sit-target-hand. And I'd leave the door open a lot.
The nice thing about curbs is that you can practise while walking - if you blithely walk off a curb, the dog should stop whether heeling or SDW or whatever. (My Chihuahas knew this when I was 12).
For working as agility contacts, think about the drop on recall thing - click when the dog hits the curb. Toss treat back behind. Click for hitting the curb. Toss behind. Then start downing at curb. Never go on after down without you being beside and getting the sit-and-target after stepping off.
For working as Zen, I'd start with a treat in the gutter. Cue Zen.
Then I'd draw a line along the curb with my finger and cue Zen. Draw a line and cue Zen at every curb, treat, repeat, repeat, perform ritual to move on.
I have copied this post from the Mentoring and Coaching blog because I want to be able to reference it easily.
Eileen adds:
A couple of disorganized thoughts came to mind. Since Sue mentioned contacts.
An interesting thing about contacts is that it is far, far easier to teach a dog to stop with her two front feet off the contact (on the grass, say), and the rear feet on. The so called two on two off. This is very, very clear to them. Easier than teaching her to stop with all four feet on the obstacle. What typically happens in the latter case is that the dog doesn't know where to stop. They get tentative and slow down and they may stop several feet before the end of the obstacle (usually the A frame). They perceive these things differently from how we do. But we don't want two on, two off on a curb?
You'll notice even in Emily's video that her dog often stops far before the barrier. It's similar to the anticipation that can happen on drop on recall if you don't compensate for it. (The usual compensation technique is to alternate with undropped recalls, isn't it, Marge? But that is not feasible in this situation. You always want the dog to stop.)
But in some contexts, like barriers, this hesitation is a feature, not a bug.
A slow down or even stop before getting to a curb is not a bad thing, yes?
But if you do want a steady pace to the edge then a full stop, adding the down could be really helpful, especially if the dog targets the edge with her feet, i.e. hangs her feet over.
But this is a very important behaviors for guide dogs, isn't it? I mean that it is normal and possible to train.
This leads me to my other thought. I would want to know _what_ is salient to the dog. What tells her what a curb is. Color? Texture? Stepping down? (what about steps and curb cuts, then?). I would want to know how she defines curb, then set about carefully expanding it. Bike paths? Gravel? Sidewalks that are the same surface as the street?
An interesting thing about contacts is that it is far, far easier to teach a dog to stop with her two front feet off the contact (on the grass, say), and the rear feet on. The so called two on two off. This is very, very clear to them. Easier than teaching her to stop with all four feet on the obstacle. What typically happens in the latter case is that the dog doesn't know where to stop. They get tentative and slow down and they may stop several feet before the end of the obstacle (usually the A frame). They perceive these things differently from how we do. But we don't want two on, two off on a curb?
You'll notice even in Emily's video that her dog often stops far before the barrier. It's similar to the anticipation that can happen on drop on recall if you don't compensate for it. (The usual compensation technique is to alternate with undropped recalls, isn't it, Marge? But that is not feasible in this situation. You always want the dog to stop.)
But in some contexts, like barriers, this hesitation is a feature, not a bug.
A slow down or even stop before getting to a curb is not a bad thing, yes?
But if you do want a steady pace to the edge then a full stop, adding the down could be really helpful, especially if the dog targets the edge with her feet, i.e. hangs her feet over.
But this is a very important behaviors for guide dogs, isn't it? I mean that it is normal and possible to train.
This leads me to my other thought. I would want to know _what_ is salient to the dog. What tells her what a curb is. Color? Texture? Stepping down? (what about steps and curb cuts, then?). I would want to know how she defines curb, then set about carefully expanding it. Bike paths? Gravel? Sidewalks that are the same surface as the street?
For me I (would) want both a great recall and a fast down at any distance including during a recall or if she is running away from me.
Lynn replies:
I've been doing some "latent thinking".
After speaking at length with Robin about Guide work and barriers (curbs, different surfaces, car awareness and other environmental challenges AND always on lead)
I've come full circle in my thinking.
Definitely this is done off leash.
Step 1:
Definitely more work on Level 3 Zen and Comeafters ... and in more and more challenging situations
- thinking long term and safety
- thinking triggers (loose cats and dogs immediately come to mind)
Step 2:
Your criteria is a logical next step
- recall
- going out/away
- both with an instant interrupter ... stop and down? stop and freeze?
- would have to be verbal
Then we have 2 more situational choices:
- when I am present (my responsibility to cue)
- when Lily is off leash and on her own (her responsibility to stay alive)
which could then lead to additional Steps that could include Barriers:
- Invisible barriers
- Default visible barriers (ie curbs, etc)
The next step for us is to review more closely Emily's Invisible Barriers videos to see if they give insight into what we don't want to incorporate in Step 2 that could seriously compromise future off-leash Barrier work.
IOW, the Comebefores to Barrier work may be sufficient.
But, if we continue into Barrier work, then your and Sue's agility insights and Robin's Guide insights will both be invaluable.
Robin's notes on this morning's Guide training discussion:
Changes in elevation or texture:
Traffic avoidance:
Environmental awareness:
Training:
IOW, the Comebefores to Barrier work may be sufficient.
But, if we continue into Barrier work, then your and Sue's agility insights and Robin's Guide insights will both be invaluable.
Robin's notes on this morning's Guide training discussion:
Changes in elevation or texture:
- A target behavior
- paws at edge of curb or change in elevation or texture
- Stop and wait for next cue
Traffic avoidance:
- Teaching respect or "fear" of moving vehicles
- Treat vehicles which block path as obsticles
- Response to vehicles coming into our path--body block me and move me out of the way
- Response to vehicles blocking path--stop and wait for next cue
Environmental awareness:
- Is it cue or a trigger?
- Do you want the same awareness when the dog is on and off leash?
- What is the response to the environmental cue?
Training:
- How are you going to generalize and which environmental cues to you want the dog to general to?
- How can you use "distance" behaviors to train "street-smart-zen"?
- How can you set it up where the dog is safe, but learns a healthy respect for streets and cars?
See Stop on a Dime
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