Bringsel Training: Looking at "Get Help" as a Stranger Retrieve

When we change our POV, how, if at all, does the behavior chain change?  (Thank you, Rachel Thornton, for this new perspective.)  Rachel boils the concept of the behavior down to:
"You are teaching Lily to retrieve a stranger."

Annieke, if you are reading this, please contribute your ideas on how to teach a dog (vested and in public) to retrieve a total stranger - as a "Get Help" behavior and using a bringsel.

Conversation w/Laurie:

Just random thoughts...
We taught Willow several small behaviors and then lumped it into a conversation.  Since the whole family understands the goal, the conversation was easy but maybe some of this is useful to your goal of having Lily retrieve a stranger, if you needed help.

1-Search and rescue games that Crystal showed us were simple (find a person first within sight then moving out of sight then starting hidden.  Adam was first hidden but then he was sending, so she understood both in case of emergency)
2-Take this (a treat jar) to a person (first the person was close and called her then the person was farther and called then didn't call when she was sent , she just went then added more people to take the object to by their name)
3-Go tell everybody for an alert (this taught that the alert signal would be offered to everyone in the room, or house and then return to Adam for a treat with the person) She was paid for the person coming with her

By all of these different behaviors practiced, Willow is very smooth about seeking people out away from the source when sent and being persistent with a paw and a back and forth pacing that communicates follow me...even guests understand that she is asking for them to follow her.

I am sure none of what we do is very polished and methodical but it gives us the fluid dialog with her to be able to problem solve.

Willow is reinforced first through acknowledgement and then by a food reward... for example, if she was sent to "tell" someone about a low... she would go to whomever and paw.  they would ask her what is it?  that is her primary reinforcement... she would show them a bow or wave and they would continue to dialog with her... she would continue to nag them for as long as they paid attention and then if they stodd she would take them to Adam where Adam and her follower pays her.  If they ignore her and tell her to go lay down she goes to another family member and nags them...

She can be exhausting to live with since we have definitely created a nag... but persistence can pay off.

In the middle of the night, if one parent can't wake then she nags the other...

Start with a friend to come with her and keep the reinforcing dialog going so she learns persistence with a known person 

My dogs can be obnoxious with a stranger in our home because I want them to ... I care more about the skill the dog has then what people think... I want the dogs to make their point clearly

And how did you teach/encourage/reinforce the nag?

initially by verbally egging them on and getting them ramped for the reward... the more they asked the more I returned verbal but delayed the food...then the food came with much excitement

Think doing that WITHOUT a dialog.  Can't have the behavior become dependent upon dialog. 

Persistence no matter HOW the stranger reacts.

Wondering if the dialog could be dropped along the way w/o losing the behavior.

Hmm.

Yes, i think the verbal can be lost because dogs really don't care about our voice... 

I make our guests train with the dogs.  If there is an alert they have to participate... if there is an alert I stop my conversation with my guests and deal with the dogs

I think you would be surprised that a stranger if faced with a dog alerting would ask what?  what is it?  what do you want?  a stranger would start talking to the dog...

8/20

Another piece of the puzzle - carrying the bringsel greater distances, sit in front and hold until bringsel is taken

• in the house, short distances first
• then greater distances
• back to direction dog is coming from, so she must first find me then come around me and sit in front
• inside to outside
• because we practice when the mood hits, we do this in the early morning before the sun comes up
• Comebefores:
• Come Level
• Retrieve Level 7 Steps to Service
• Cue:  Lily Come
• when I have another person to practice with we will have to drop the Come cue

Input from Sue:

The Deliver Game Step 1 - Lily spent a great deal of time vacuuming the rug. Does she need a couple of sessions near a street drain? Or some Monkey In The Middle with feet?

I like the idea of sitting in front of the person with bringsel in mouth. I'd put the message on the handle, which would unfurl when the bringsel is pulled out of its pocket. Almost a flag with HELP on it.

You have a very helpful sister.

Re bringing the stranger. THink of my advice to the llama woman in England about teaching the llama to kick the ball into the net. She had trouble figuring out exactly what angle was correct for foot to meet ball, then clicking it in a timely manner. I told her to stop clicking the llama and start clicking the ball for going in the right direction. That did the trick.

You have a good start on the bringsel. I'd eliminate it for a bit now because I see Lily concentrating on the bringsel and not on retrieving the stranger.

This is what I've done:

Get dog to go and target hand of person. *I* click for target. *I* reward click. (eliminate stranger rewarding for now, may need it again later).

Get dog to go and target hand of person. Don't click. Upon being targeted, person says hi. I click hi, I reward click.

Get dog to go and target hand of person. Person says hi and takes ONE step toward me. I click step, I reward click.

And then two steps, etc. If at any time the dog fails to think about "retrieving" other person (comes straight back to me looking for click, whatever), I cue target again, click target. Otherwise I'm clicking the steps. Do enough targeting that the dog is watching the person AND me. 

When the person finally arrives at me, ALL THREE of us have a HUGE party with hand shaking, hugging, lots of pets, jumping around, bones raining from the sky, etc. Make it obvious to the dog how thrilled I am that the person has arrived. 

Repeat. It took maybe 3 arrivals before Scuba was doing the Lassie thing, taking a couple of steps toward me, looking back to make sure the person was following, going back to target the person if she stopped, running a couple of steps to me, etc.

Once the dog understands retrieving the person, add the bringsel back in to the mix. Person won't start moving until they have the bringsel in hand. Now think about how shaping works. If the person is too "dumb" to take the bringsel, dog must poke-poke at target hand. If told to go away, must go find a different person. If engaged, start back toward you.

It's a chain: Dog finds person, finding the person cues dog to poke (poke is same motion as offering bringsel), poke produces eye contact, eye contact produces voice contact (or taking bringsel, later), voice contact cues dog moving toward you, dog moving toward you cues person moving toward you. Person moving toward you cues dog to move toward you. No movement cues poke.

"Touch" while holding the bringsel?

Touch while holding bringsel, yes, because soon the stranger may not respond to her offering the bringsel, and in that case she'll have to do some poking to try to teach/remind them to take the bloody thing.

I'm thinking of Syn. I ask her who's hungry, she runs and gets her dish and hands it to me. On occasion I "forget" to take it from her when she's handing it to me. I did this to see what she would do, I didn't really have in mind that I would teach her to remind me to take it, but that's what she does. If I ignore her, she dances in front of me, then poke... poke... poke... hey, stupid, I'm holding a kerflushinner DISH here, now it's YOUR turn!

Then eventually you have to build in the three-poke-and-you're-out routine, where she finally gives up and goes to find someone smarter.

Or maybe after the third or fourth poke she spits it out in front of them and backs away from it? A dog person would be more likely to take it from a dog who was offering it. I'd be leery of picking it up off the ground when it's so obviously important to the dog - maybe the dog laid a trap for me and is going to lunge forward and try to grab it before I do? Maybe ask some complete strangers on the street how they would be more likely to take it.

8/21/13

Carry bringsel behavior

• "Take it"
• "Wait"
• "Come"
• C&L distance
• C&L direction I am facing
• Front and Sit are default into Lily's recall 
• Hold is default into Lily's retrieve